Comments on: Mariners delay to win in Cleveland http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/ Baseball, Cheating, and Rules discussion at the author's blog for the Cheater's Guide to Baseball Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:29:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: DMZ http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-541 DMZ Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:29:46 +0000 http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-541 I actually joke about Hargrove as a player in the book. I actually joke about Hargrove as a player in the book.

]]> By: Allen http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-540 Allen Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:27:32 +0000 http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-540 Ironic that Mike Hargrove was nicknamed 'The Human Rain Delay' as a player. From Wikipedia: "He also attained the nickname "The Human Rain Delay" for his deliberate routine at the plate before each at-bat and before each pitch. He drove pitchers crazy by stepping out of the batter's box after each pitch and starting his routine, which consisted of (1) adjusting his helmet, (2) adjusting his batting glove, making sure it was tight on his hand and especially the thumb, (3) pulling each sleeve on his uniform up about an inch, and (4) wiping each hand on his uniform pants before finally settling in the box." In the 1980's, the radio announcers for the Indians would often joke when the team was losing in the 4th or 5th innings (as was frequently the case for the Tribe in the 80's) and there were thunderstorms in the forecast (as is often the case in Cleveland!). They's say that if Hargrove were up to bat, with the time that each of his mannerisms took to complete before each pitch, that the game was guaranteed to be rained out, and thus the nickname. Fleer honored Hargrove and his nickname in their 2006 'Greats of the Game' card set: http://home.earthlink.net/~fugazzi69/hargrove.htm Ironic that Mike Hargrove was nicknamed ‘The Human Rain Delay’ as a player. From Wikipedia: “He also attained the nickname “The Human Rain Delay” for his deliberate routine at the plate before each at-bat and before each pitch. He drove pitchers crazy by stepping out of the batter’s box after each pitch and starting his routine, which consisted of (1) adjusting his helmet, (2) adjusting his batting glove, making sure it was tight on his hand and especially the thumb, (3) pulling each sleeve on his uniform up about an inch, and (4) wiping each hand on his uniform pants before finally settling in the box.”

In the 1980′s, the radio announcers for the Indians would often joke when the team was losing in the 4th or 5th innings (as was frequently the case for the Tribe in the 80′s) and there were thunderstorms in the forecast (as is often the case in Cleveland!). They’s say that if Hargrove were up to bat, with the time that each of his mannerisms took to complete before each pitch, that the game was guaranteed to be rained out, and thus the nickname.

Fleer honored Hargrove and his nickname in their 2006 ‘Greats of the Game’ card set: http://home.earthlink.net/~fugazzi69/hargrove.htm

]]> By: tangotiger http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-539 tangotiger Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:10:59 +0000 http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-539 Dick Williams (I think it was him... maybe it was Tanner... it was an Expos manager) did the same darned thing, when they played the Blue Jays. What's that you said? The Expos never played the Jays in the 80s? You obviously haven't heard of the Pearson Cup, where every year, the Expos and Jays would play during the regular season... an exhibition game! And the rule for end of game was also time-dependent. The Expos manager simply stalled for time, until the game had to be called. If a manager would stop at nothing to win a meaningless exhibition game, I don't doubt what they'd do for real. Of course, the game should just be suspended, not cancelled. In the NHL Cup finals, between the Oilers and Bruins, it was 3-3 when the game was cancelled in the 3rd period because they lost power. Not suspended, but cancelled. If only life were that easy... Dick Williams (I think it was him… maybe it was Tanner… it was an Expos manager) did the same darned thing, when they played the Blue Jays.

What’s that you said? The Expos never played the Jays in the 80s? You obviously haven’t heard of the Pearson Cup, where every year, the Expos and Jays would play during the regular season… an exhibition game!

And the rule for end of game was also time-dependent. The Expos manager simply stalled for time, until the game had to be called.

If a manager would stop at nothing to win a meaningless exhibition game, I don’t doubt what they’d do for real.

Of course, the game should just be suspended, not cancelled.

In the NHL Cup finals, between the Oilers and Bruins, it was 3-3 when the game was cancelled in the 3rd period because they lost power. Not suspended, but cancelled.

If only life were that easy…

]]> By: Steve http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-478 Steve Sun, 08 Apr 2007 19:01:36 +0000 http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-478 "Wait, you ment the game, not the manager. My mistake." Well, even if Hargrove was suspended for the rest of the game, that's one pitch. That last pitch was a way to watch both managers try to game the system, one to delay until the snow was so bad the game *had* to be called, the other to force a pitch and then (presumably) have the game ended thereafter. “Wait, you ment the game, not the manager. My mistake.”

Well, even if Hargrove was suspended for the rest of the game, that’s one pitch.

That last pitch was a way to watch both managers try to game the system, one to delay until the snow was so bad the game *had* to be called, the other to force a pitch and then (presumably) have the game ended thereafter.

]]> By: Angela http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-465 Angela Sun, 08 Apr 2007 06:52:13 +0000 http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-465 Yeah, Zu Long. I was hoping the game would go on the books because if Martinez had to get hurt, at least he could get hurt in a game that <I>counted</I>. :\ Yeah, Zu Long. I was hoping the game would go on the books because if Martinez had to get hurt, at least he could get hurt in a game that counted. :\

]]> By: Zu Long http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-450 Zu Long Sat, 07 Apr 2007 07:34:21 +0000 http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-450 http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070406&content_id=1882874&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle Victor Martinez went out of the game with a hamstring injury in the third apparently. Man, Cleveland looked pretty good out of the gate. Martinez going down could cost them more than the make-up game. http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070406&content_id=1882874&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle

Victor Martinez went out of the game with a hamstring injury in the third apparently. Man, Cleveland looked pretty good out of the gate. Martinez going down could cost them more than the make-up game.

]]> By: Zu Long http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-448 Zu Long Sat, 07 Apr 2007 06:32:09 +0000 http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-448 Wait, you ment the game, not the manager. My mistake. Wait, you ment the game, not the manager. My mistake.

]]> By: Zu Long http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-447 Zu Long Sat, 07 Apr 2007 06:29:55 +0000 http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-447 I'm just presenting the other side of the argument- it might have been cheating, but it might not have been too. Suspending Hargove for protecting his players seems a bit harsh, don't you think? :P I’m just presenting the other side of the argument- it might have been cheating, but it might not have been too. Suspending Hargove for protecting his players seems a bit harsh, don’t you think? :P

]]> By: DMZ http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-446 DMZ Sat, 07 Apr 2007 06:24:26 +0000 http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-446 Sure. Players said that they couldn't see the ball come off the bat because of the snow. There's really no way that the game should have been played in those conditions at all - the problem being that the rules create such a huge incentive for the home team (and the umps) to get to the legal game threshold that even the safety of the players was threatened. Sure. Players said that they couldn’t see the ball come off the bat because of the snow. There’s really no way that the game should have been played in those conditions at all – the problem being that the rules create such a huge incentive for the home team (and the umps) to get to the legal game threshold that even the safety of the players was threatened.

]]> By: Zu Long http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.com/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-445 Zu Long Sat, 07 Apr 2007 06:16:39 +0000 http://www.zumsteg.net/cheatersguide/2007/04/06/mariners-delay-to-win-in-cleveland/#comment-445 Perhaps another argument is that MLB should accept the delayed game when conditions are sub-standard, and unlikely to permit a full 9 innings. Looking at the weather report going into game-time, there was no way a full game could have been played. Further, conditions were awful. The only runs scored in the game were on errors. Who's to say those errors would have been made in the first place? If you can't reasonably expect 9 innings to be played, the game shouldn't be played. Finally, what if Mike Hargrove was right, and Jose Lopez really COULDN'T see the ball? The umpire could have been ignoring calling the game during the 5th in the hopes of getting a game on the books. If mother nature picked the 5th with 1 batter left to go as the time to make conditions impossible to play in, is it really fair to ask Hargrove and Mariners to suck it up and take the loss? Perhaps another argument is that MLB should accept the delayed game when conditions are sub-standard, and unlikely to permit a full 9 innings. Looking at the weather report going into game-time, there was no way a full game could have been played.

Further, conditions were awful. The only runs scored in the game were on errors. Who’s to say those errors would have been made in the first place?

If you can’t reasonably expect 9 innings to be played, the game shouldn’t be played.

Finally, what if Mike Hargrove was right, and Jose Lopez really COULDN’T see the ball? The umpire could have been ignoring calling the game during the 5th in the hopes of getting a game on the books. If mother nature picked the 5th with 1 batter left to go as the time to make conditions impossible to play in, is it really fair to ask Hargrove and Mariners to suck it up and take the loss?

]]>